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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 8:02 am 
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Chihuahua isolate PA/02/2011 has Q226R as a mixture when grown in eggs, but wild type at 226 when grown on mammalian cells.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:04 am 
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The egg bit: I assume you are saying that these changes are there but got picked up this time using eggs ie the rates could be a lot higher and/or widespread but unknown due to wrong non-egg testing?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:46 am 
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Dingo wrote:
The egg bit: I assume you are saying that these changes are there but got picked up this time using eggs ie the rates could be a lot higher and/or widespread but unknown due to wrong non-egg testing?

Exactly right. The changes (D225G, D225N, and Q226R) favor growth on 2,3 cells (chicken eggs or human lung) so when isolated on mammalian cells (MDCK = dog kidney), the wild type H1N1 is isolated. However, the same clinical sample, when grown on eggs or human lung leads to selection of D225G, D225N and/or Q226R, which are present, but not detected in mammalian isolates.

Thus, D225G, D225N, and Q225R are under-represented in samples tested only on MDCK.

The CDC used this to claim that D225G didn't cluster, was spontaneous, and really wasn't in the Duke death cluster, all of which is WRONG.

Now they are using eggs more oftern and getting more D225G, D225N and Q225R.

In Ukraine and Chihuahua, D225G and D225N were dected via DIRECT sequencing of the clinical sample, showing that the presence of D225G and D225N are quite real, and eggs isolates just shows what was missed in mammalian isolates.

Note that in the latest vaccine selection meeting the CDC was still trying to get others to use MDCK (to perpetuate their myth on D225G and low reactors).

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Dingo wrote:
The egg bit: I assume you are saying that these changes are there but got picked up this time using eggs ie the rates could be a lot higher and/or widespread but unknown due to wrong non-egg testing?

FYI, I noticed that the babblers are hard at work on the babble board and trying to maintain the myth that the egg passages produce artifacts at positions 225 and 226

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showpo ... tcount=801

Of course the babblers ignore the data generated by DIRECT sequencing of CLINCAL SAMPLES (no cloning involved) which show high levels of D225G and D225N in severe/fatal cases in Ukraine in 2009 and Chihuahua in 2011.

The above link shows the classic babble interpretation.

These are members of the flat earth society who hold up pictures of flat maps generated by the top cartographers of the time to prove that the earth really is flat!!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:24 pm 
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niman wrote:
Dingo wrote:
The egg bit: I assume you are saying that these changes are there but got picked up this time using eggs ie the rates could be a lot higher and/or widespread but unknown due to wrong non-egg testing?

FYI, I noticed that the babblers are hard at work on the babble board and trying to maintain the myth that the egg passages produce artifacts at positions 225 and 226

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showpo ... tcount=801

Of course the babblers ignore the data generated by DIRECT sequencing of CLINCAL SAMPLES (no cloning involved) which show high levels of D225G and D225N in severe/fatal cases in Ukraine in 2009 and Chihuahua in 2011.

The above link shows the classic babble interpretation.

These are members of the flat earth society who hold up pictures of flat maps generated by the top cartographers of the time to prove that the earth really is flat!!!!

Since the D225G / D225N linkage to severe and fatal cases is so clear, it is worth reviewing the background leading up to the WHO/CDC position, which is a model of their "black is white" position on so many critical points. WHO and CDC base policy and press releases on negative data (including frequent use of "no evidence to support" phrase). Most scientists stay as far away as possible from conclusions based on negative data because of the large number of arifictual causes of negative data. However, not only does the WHO and CDC freqiently cite negative data, but then they double down when positive data shows their negative data is false by calling the positive data negative (as in false positive due to lab error/artifact).

Thus, in their parallel universe black is white and white is black, which is clearly demonstrated in their position that the linkage of D225G with severe and fatal cases is overstated, in part becuase of the association of the detection of D225G (and now D225N and Q226R) with virus isolation in eggs (which is more senstive so it generates positive data showing the the WHO/CDC negative data is false).

Their absurd position is repeated by the babblers (see above link), long after the WHO/CDC nonsense has been clearly demonstrated to be false many times over by VERY clear data generated (and published in peer reviewed journals) by MUTLIPLE labs.

Now the CDC is also generating more of such data, so the babblers again use the positive data (D225N and Q226R) generate in egg isolates, as evidence that the more sensitive assay is LAB ERROR!!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:40 pm 
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Mixin's position has the usual disclaimer that she has no clue (as is already VERY clear from her absurd position and data analysis)

http://www.flutrackers.com/forum/showpo ... tcount=802

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:16 pm 
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Here is a repeat of the D225G background, which is clearly worth repeating.

In the fall of 2009 Ukraine was reporting large numbers of previously healthy young adults appearing at emegency rooms in western Ukraine. The patients were coughing up blood and quickly dying. Autopsies showed extensive lung damage which alarmed local physicians. This situation led WHO to send in investigative teams based at the WHO regional center in England (Mill Hill) or the United States (CDC in Atlanta).

I put up several Recombinomics commentaries noting that D225G and D225N were linked to severe and fatal cases in multiple countries leading to the prediction that the severe and fatal cases in Urkaine would have D225G/N (due to this association as well as the jumping of D225G and D225N from background to background via recombination).

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11080 ... _D225.html

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11090 ... _1918.html

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11180 ... D225G.html

After a significant delay in release of the sequences (and multiple commentaries noting the delays), the WHO put out a press release stating that the sequences had no significant changes. However, the press release was followed by the release of 11 Ukraine HA sequences generated by Mill Hill. One sequence was an older sequence from Kiev, while the other 10 were from western Ukraine cases, including 4 sequences from fatal cases. All four fatal cases had D225G, while the 7 sequences from milder cases, including the six from western Ukraine, had wild type ("D") at poistion 225.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11180 ... irmed.html

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11180 ... _Lung.html

Thus, the data released just after the press release confirmed that the press release was a typical BOGUS "no evidence of" fairy tale put out by WHO.

Anyone seriously looking at the data could see the relationship of D225G with the fatal cases, as PREDICTED in the Recombinomics commentary, based in part by the recombination causing D225G to jump from one H1N1 genetic background to another. In addition to the 2009 H1N1 sequences with D225G, two of the five HA sequences from 1918/1919 autopsy lung had D225G, providing additional data that the D225G was not due to some lab artifact, and the presence in the 1918 and 1919 samples clearly supported transmission (where 20-50 MILLION died).

Other scientists, including those from Norway, saw the Mill Hill data (made PUBLIC at GISAID), looked at their cases with D225G, and quickly concluded that the D225G association with severe and fatal cases seen in Ukraine was also seen in Norway (and Hong Kong).

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11200 ... y_225.html

However, in spite of the clear positive data showing the WHO claim of negative data (no significant changes) was FALSE, the WHO and CDC doubled down at the end of 2009 claiming that D225G was in mild cases and many lab isolates (from eggs) had D225G that was not found in the original sample (sensitivity in direct sequencing is lower and sample amount is limited).

This BOGUS report was e-mailed on a Friday January 22, 2010 to WER subscribers.

http://www.who.int/entity/wer/2010/wer8 ... index.html

The following Monday Mill Hill released HA data generated by DIRECT sequencing of 32 AUTOPSY LUNG samples. Thus, the Mill Hill data avoided any influence of virus isolation (in egg or mammalian cells) and the DIRECT sequencing indicated that most of the samples had D225G, D225N, or BOTH.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/01251 ... pread.html

The Mill Hill data THOROUGHLY discredited the WHO/CDC fairly tale on lab error and egg isolates.

The Mill Hill data was followed by multiple peer reviewed publications from other countries (including Norway and Hong Kong) showing the association between D225G and severe/fatal H1N1 cases.

However, even after release of this overwhelming data, the CDC (Nancy Cox) still maintained that the linkage was overblown and they used the lab error/isolation nonsense to ignore the detection of D225G in the index case of the Duke death cluster (detected in TWO of TWO samples) as well as D225N in another fatal case, and maintained their associated fairy tales that D225G was "spontaneous", was not clustered, did not transmit, and was due to random mutations.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/01261 ... 225GN.html

However, the latest series of CDC sequences has more egg isolates and a dramatic increase in the detection of D225N and Q226R (which Mixin claims is due to isolation in eggs and cites the BOGUS D225G report concocted by WHO and CDC in late 2009 and propagated by the usual propagator posters and websites - aka babblers and babble boards) suggest that the CDC and WHO may be realizing the reality that egg isolates are a more SENSITIVE assay for detecting D225G, D225N, and Q226R that is in the CLINICAL samples.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:24 pm 
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niman wrote:
Here is a repeat of the D225G background, which is clearly worth repeating.

In the fall of 2009 Ukraine was reporting large numbers of previously healthy young adults appearing at emegency rooms in western Ukraine. The patients were coughing up blood and quickly dying. Autopsies showed extensive lung damage which alarmed local physicians. This situation led WHO to send in investigative teams based at the WHO regional center in England (Mill Hill) or the United States (CDC in Atlanta).

I put up several Recombinomics commentaries noting that D225G and D225N were linked to severe and fatal cases in multiple countries leading to the prediction that the severe and fatal cases in Urkaine would have D225G/N (due to this association as well as teh jumping of D225G and D225N from background to background via recombination).

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11080 ... _D225.html

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11090 ... _1918.html

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11180 ... D225G.html

After a significant delay in release of the sequences (and multiple commentaries noting the delays), the WHO put out a press release stating that the sequences had no significant changes. However, the press release was followed by the release of 11 HA sequences from Mill Hill. One sequence was an older sequence from Kiev, while the other 10 were from western Ukraine cases, including 4 sequences from fatal cases. All four fatal cases had D225G, while the 7 sequences from milder cases, including the six from western Ukraine, had wild type ("D") at poistion 225.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11180 ... irmed.html

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11180 ... _Lung.html

Thus, the data released just after the press release confirmed that the press release was a typical BOGUS "no evidence of" fairy tale put out by WHO.

Anyone seriously looking at the data could see the relationship of D225G with the fatal cases, as PREDICTED in the Recombinomics commentary, based in part by the recombination causing D225G to jump from one H1N1 genetic background to another. In addition to the 2009 H1N1 sequences with D225G, two of the five HA sequences from 1918/1919 autopsy lung had D225G, providing additional data that the D225G was not due to some lab artifact, and the presence in the 1918 and 1919 samples clearly supported transmission (where 20-50 MILLION died).

Other scientists, including those from Norway, saw the Mill Hill data (made PUBLIC at GISAID) looked at their cases with D225G and quickly concluded that the D225G association with severe and fatal cases seen in Ukraine was also seen in Norway (and Hong Kong).

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11200 ... y_225.html

However, in spite of the clear positive data showing the WHO claim of negative data (no significant changes) was FALSE, the WHO and CDC doubled down at the end of 2009 claiming that D225G was in mild cases and many lab isolates (from eggs) had D225G that was not found in the original sample (sensitivity in direct sequencing is lower and sample amount is limited).

This BOGUS report was e-mailed on a Friday January 22, 2010 to WER subscribers.

http://www.who.int/entity/wer/2010/wer8 ... index.html

The following Monday Mill Hill released HA data generated by DIRECT sequencing of 32 AUTOPSY LUNG samples. Thus, the Mill Hill data avoided any influence of virus isolation (in egg or mammalian cells) and the DIRECT sequencing indicated that most of the samples had D225G, D225N, or BOTH.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/01251 ... pread.html

The Mill Hill data THOROUGHLY discredited the WHO/CDC fairly tale on lab error and egg isolates.

The Mill Hill data was followed by multiple peer reviewed publications from other countries (including Norway and Hong Kong) showing the association between D225G and severe/fatal H1N1 cases.

However, even after release of this overwhelming data, the CDC (Nancy Cox) still maintained that the linkage was overblown and they used the lab error/isolation nonsense to ignore the detection of D225G in the index case of the Duke death cluster (detected in TWO of TWO samples) as well as D225N in another fatal case, and maintain their associated fairy tales that D225G is "spontaneous", is not clustered, does not transmit, and is due to random mutations.

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/01261 ... 225GN.html

However, the latest series of CDC sequences has more egg isolates and a dramatic increase in the detection of D225N and Q226R (which Mixin claims is due to isolation in eggs and cites the BOGUS D225G report concocted by WHO and CDC in late 2009 and propagated by the usual propagator posters and websites - aka babblers and babble boards) suggest that the CDC and WHO may be realizing the reality that egg isolates are a more SENSITIVE assay for detecting D225G, D225N, and Q226R that is in the CLINICAL samples.

Mixin's position is the now the famliar black is white routine where the positive data (detection of D225G, D225N, or Q226R on the more sensitive egg isolation assay where the target cell has gal 2,3 receptors) is used to claim that the positive data is negative because it contradicts the negative (failure to find D225G, D225N, or Q226R) data generated by mammalian cellls which have gal 2.6 receptors and select AGAINST D225G, D225N or Q226R).

Thus, in her eyes (and the CDC and WHO), the negative data (no D225G) is positive and the positive data (D225G) is negative (because eggs were used and the eggs create a lab artifact/error).

This same hocus poscus is used for recombination, where recombination between closely related sequences (which is most common) is ignored and called "random mutation" and the excessive recombination, which chops longer acquired sequences into shorter sequences, is ignored or called lab error because the shortened sequences are too short, so the positive data showing polymorphisms jumping from one background to another, (like D225G, D225N, Q226R, H274Y) are called spontaneous mutations or "lab error", and the absence of examples (after the positive examples are excluded) is used to claim no recombinaton (as in black is white and white is black) in the WHO/CDC parallel universe.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Commentary

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/06231 ... R_Egg.html

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:08 pm 
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New vaccine target has Q226R

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