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Angel_B
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:55 pm 
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Korea
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A woman in her 40s was declared brain dead from possible complications from the influenza A (H1N1) virus, the Ministry of Health, Welfare and Family Affairs said Friday. If the woman died from what proves to be new flu-related complications, it would bring the related death toll to five. With the number of patients swelling and the death toll rising, the government is considering the status of the epidemic. The patient was diagnosed with influenza Monday after suffering from high fever and respiratory problems. She was thought to have recovered after taking antiviral drugs, but suddenly developed cerebral edema and hemorrhaging, the health authorities said.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/na ... 51294.html
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ms4920
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 2:58 pm 
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poshttp://health.yahoo.com/flu-medicati ... tssibility
Tamiflu has a lot of side effects and we do not even know what type of condition she was in before.
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sgrondahl
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:28 pm 
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This is an interesting development. Currently we are seeing patients with H1N1 and about 50% of the time, they are not expressing an elevated temperature. This individual has a high fever. She lives in Korea. This region sees quite a bit of H5N1.

H5N1 HP, also produces high fever, no? Could this be yet, another, co-mingled virus victim? (other than Egypt)

Am I wrong? Please throw your opinions in the ring here folks.
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KEWill
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 7:57 pm 
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Posts: 444
sgrondahl wrote:
This is an interesting development. Currently we are seeing patients with H1N1 and about 50% of the time, they are not expressing an elevated temperature. This individual has a high fever. She lives in Korea. This region sees quite a bit of H5N1.

H5N1 HP, also produces high fever, no? Could this be yet, another, co-mingled virus victim? (other than Egypt)

Am I wrong? Please throw your opinions in the ring here folks.


The only way you will see evidence of co mingled virus will be when you have a large jump in deaths. For these guys will never admit it until they have too.
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kah
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:32 pm 
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Angel_B wrote:
She was thought to have recovered after taking antiviral drugs, but suddenly developed cerebral edema and hemorrhaging, the health authorities said.

I keep wondering if some of these things are opportunistic infections/viruses that the body cannot fight after the immune system has to work so hard in building the antibodies for a new flu strain..H1N1.

That said, edema and hemorrhaging can add up to hemorrhagic fever? Korea is a place where that is a possibility.

Quote:
Hemorrhagic Fever, common name for a group of acute viral diseases, the symptoms of which usually begin with fever and muscle aches and progress to dizziness, collapse, swelling, and shock. Depending upon the particular virus, hemorrhagic fevers may progressively produce respiratory problems, internal bleeding, kidney problems, and death.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761580699/hemorrhagic_fever.html

Please feel free to blow wholes in this theory. I am not a medical professional but do work in a capacity in clinical trials and data. I did work on a study on Hemorrhagic Fever once and that is why the symptoms came to my mind. However, "most" people do not die so quickly, even though the mortality rate can be high, as much as 50% or more, depending on many different variables and type. However, it has never been coupled with H1N1. Much like H1N1, Hemorrhagic Fever can be very mild to acute=causing death.
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MKey1
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:43 pm 
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Acute necrotizing encephalopathy of childhood was first coined by Mizuguchi and colleagues in Japan to describe an acute encephalopathy with clinical features resembling Reye's syndrome but unique features on brain computerized tomography (CT). The encephalopathy affected previously healthy children after respiratory tract infection and presented with coma, convulsion and hyperpyrexia [very high fever]. Neuroimaging showed symmetrical lesions of the cerebral white matter, thalamus, cerebellum and brainstem. Autopsy studies showed extensive non-inflammatory fresh cerebral necrosis and edema. Influenza A was identified as the commonest preceding infection but other viral infections could also occur.


Quote:
Nine case reports of ANE with autopsy examination in the acute stage were retrieved from six publications after a complete search of Ovid Medline (date accessed 1 March 2009). The summary of the pathological features including the present case are tabulated in the Table. Four cases occurred outside Far East involving children of non-Asian ethic groups [so looks like the other 5 were in Asians]. Varying degree of cerebral edema, frequently severe, was a constant finding but cerebral herniation was noted only in 2 cases.


Final Diagnosis -- Influenza associated acute necrotizing encephalopathy
Influenza associated acute necrotizing encephalopathy (ANE).

http://path.upmc.edu/cases/case619/dx.html

Further reading:

http://hrcak.srce.hr/file/44245

Encephalitis or Encephalopathy
During an Influenza-A Epidemic

Quote:
Influenza A epidemics have almost regularly been accompanied by reports of central nervous system (CNS) impairments associated with influenza A. CNS impairments usually occur in small children under the age of 5–6 years, however, they may also develop in adults. Encephalitis, encephalopathy and acute necrotizing encephalopathy have been related to the influenza virus invasion


Quote:
The patients were aged 17–60, mean age 36.5 years. In two (33.3%) patients, the symptoms of encephalitis manifested within the first 48 hours, and in three (50.0%) patients on day 4 or 5 of the onset of influenza. In one (16.6%) patient, encephalitis manifested on day 11 of initial influenza symptoms.


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wotan
PostPosted: Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:59 pm 
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Location: Katy, TX
kah wrote:
Angel_B wrote:
She was thought to have recovered after taking antiviral drugs, but suddenly developed cerebral edema and hemorrhaging, the health authorities said.

I keep wondering if some of these things are opportunistic infections/viruses that the body cannot fight after the immune system has to work so hard in building the antibodies for a new flu strain..H1N1.

That said, edema and hemorrhaging can add up to hemorrhagic fever? Korea is a place where that is a possibility.

Quote:
Hemorrhagic Fever, common name for a group of acute viral diseases, the symptoms of which usually begin with fever and muscle aches and progress to dizziness, collapse, swelling, and shock. Depending upon the particular virus, hemorrhagic fevers may progressively produce respiratory problems, internal bleeding, kidney problems, and death.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761580699/hemorrhagic_fever.html

Please feel free to blow wholes in this theory. I am not a medical professional but do work in a capacity in clinical trials and data. I did work on a study on Hemorrhagic Fever once and that is why the symptoms came to my mind. However, "most" people do not die so quickly, even though the mortality rate can be high, as much as 50% or more, depending on many different variables and type. However, it has never been coupled with H1N1. Much like H1N1, Hemorrhagic Fever can be very mild to acute=causing death.


Very severe cases of influenza have been known to produce symptoms that can be confused with a haemorrhagic fever. There are stories from 1918 of people bleeding from various parts of the body including, I believe, the eyes.

_________________
I am not a doctor, virologist, or any of type of medical/life sciences professional.

I am a layman with a background in the physical sciences.
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MKey1
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:21 am 
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Very severe cases of influenza have been known to produce symptoms that can be confused with a haemorrhagic fever. There are stories from 1918 of people bleeding from various parts of the body including, I believe, the eyes.

Here are a few descriptions for anyone interested...

Quote:
It is not possible to give statistics, for in the stress and dire overstrain of those strenuous days and nights no fall records were kept; but when special inquiry was made in scores of consecutive cases, some degree of nose-bleeding had occurred in over half ; in most it had been but blood enough to redden a handkerchief, but in some it had been sufficiently severe to call for treatment for the nose-bleeding itself; and all the medical men one met were commenting on the commonness of this epistaxis.


Quote:
Haemoptysis was also common, though not so common as epistaxis. The latter occurred in the simple mild cases as much as in the severe ; true haemoptysis, with the expectoration of bright red liquid blood in amounts varying from half a teaspoonful to several ounces was met with so often that it could not have been accidental


Quote:
Hæmatemesis was observed many times ; as a rule it was ' difficult to exclude the possibility of the blood from the stomach having been derived originally from the nose, swallowed and then vomited


http://influenza.sph.unimelb.edu.au/dat ... chap_3.pdf

The above was just a sampling of what clinicians of 1918 had to say. They also described rectal bleeding, bleeding into the skin (purpura), vaginal bleeding, bleeding from the ears and bleeding from the eyes.

Medical Terminology Notes:
Epistaxis = nosebleed
Hemoptysis = coughing up blood
Hematemesis = vomiting up blood
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wotan
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:32 am 
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Location: Katy, TX
MKey1 wrote:
Here are a few descriptions for anyone interested...


Thank you Mkey, I was not in a position to grab any examples.

_________________
I am not a doctor, virologist, or any of type of medical/life sciences professional.

I am a layman with a background in the physical sciences.
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kah
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2009 1:52 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:33 pm
Posts: 192
wotan wrote:
Very severe cases of influenza have been known to produce symptoms that can be confused with a haemorrhagic fever. There are stories from 1918 of people bleeding from various parts of the body including, I believe, the eyes.

MKey1 wrote:
Here are a few descriptions for anyone interested...

Thanks for the info. I hope we don't hear more stories like this with H1N1.
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