Rhiza Labs FluTracker Forum

Niman is a virologist, not an anthropologist. I think he is referring to links in the pH1N1 sequences, not through lineage.

I like how you authoritatively make statements about things you obviously know little or nothing about. Ukraine was, of course, part of the former Soviet Union. It shares a border with current day Russia. As such, there was always some amount (probably a large amount) of cross-"border" crossing to take on new jobs, etc. in other areas of the country. Therefore, intermarriages between ethnic Ukrainians and ethnic Russians were and are commonplace.

In my neighborhood of Brooklyn, it is commonplace for these kinds of family situations: in Russia, a Ukrainian man married a Russian woman. Since emigrating to the US with their baby boy, the woman's Russian mother has come to live with them. The now 12 year old son can, as a result, speak both Russian and its very similar Ukrainian variant...and furthermore learns how to swear from the kids on the street in both languages....pretty much exactly the situation if they were now living in Russia or Ukraine.

Moreover, just so you know, there may be some small single digit percentage of "native" Siberians, but the vast majority of Siberians are ethnic Russians (with a smaller percentage of ethnic Ukrainians) and therefore border areas between China and Mongolia will have mostly blonde, blue-eyed people (and other typical Russian/Ukrainian types) on the Russian side of the border.

There is as much traffic (highway, train, plane) between Asian Russia and European Russia and Ukraine as there is between the Northeast US and the Southeast US, or the US east coast and the US west coast so your claim that there are "few linkages" between Ukrainians and Russians and "Siberian Russians" is absurd. Do you think Russians and Ukrainians get around by dogsled and pony cart?

In fact, the train system is so extensive, and so economical, that people think nothing of taking thousand mile (or longer) trips within Russia and Ukraine. Ukraine has the nice beach resorts on the Black Sea, Russia has Moscow, Saint Petersburg, and many other hundreds of things. As an illustration of this tendency to go on very long train trips, you might want to stop by the European Russian thread, go to the entries on December 28, and read about the kids who became ill after visiting Moscow from Yekaterinburg. Yekaterinburg is 880 miles away from Moscow, on the eastern side of the Ural Mountains, and approaching western Siberia. 200 7 to 14 year old kids, 880 miles via train and the Russians think nothing of that as these kinds of trips are a cultural norm.

Please. I know you must know small town Maine as that's apparently where your radio station is. Please stick to making authoritative statements about small town Maine....and stop making ludicrous statements about things you clearly know nothing about in order to somehow make some "conspiracy theory" point.

Andre10056: Very interesting history. I was born in Brooklyn, left when I was 1 year old. Parents brought us out to California. Always wanted to go back to check out where I was born.

Some early cases arrived from Moscow (no bioweapons factories required).

Here are the three sequences that match the Ternopil/Khmelnitsky lineage. Two are on the Ukrainian eastern border.

gb|GU367327.1| Influenza A virus (A/Salekhard/01/2009(H1N1)) ... 36.2 0.76
gb|CY053744.1| Influenza A virus (A/Russia/190/2009(H1N1)) se... 36.2 0.76
gb|CY053736.1| Influenza A virus (A/Russia/178/2009(H1N1)) se... 36.2 0.76

is that lineage worse than others

I will have a commentary up shortly. Briefly, the GISAID sequences generated by Mill Hill and CDC from Ukraine fall into two closely related sub-clades. One sub-clade has sequences from Ternopil and Khelnitsy and the HA sequences had one marker that was in all (but not in the two Lviv sequences). The same marker was in three sequences at Genbank, which are the three listed. There was one other marker that was also in the Lviv sequences and a much wider distribution at Genbank. Mill Hill listed four of the 9 sequences from western Ukraine as deceased. The samples from the survivors was nasopharygeal and HA just had the two markers above. Samples from the four fatal cases came from lung and throat. All four had D225G. The CDC present HA sequences from 5. Three were from the five survivors. The other two were almost certainly fatal and had D225N (one as a mixture with wild type). All of the CDC sequences were from the Ternopil/Khelnitsy lineage.
Additional markers in other genes matched up with many isoaltes from Russia, including the three listed. The four recent Russian sequences from lung had D225G. The trachea sample had D225N. Thus, there are now 11 samples from lung or throat, which are likely to be 11 fatal cases, and all 11 have D225G or D225N. Most of these are from the same broad lineage which includes the 6 cases from Ukraine.

the Norway seuences were also from fatal cases, I think.

The Siberian ?

Commentary

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/01021 ... pread.html

This is the broader list

gb|GU371263.1| Influenza A virus (A/Bryansk/IIV2971/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|GU371256.1| Influenza A virus (A/Orenburg/IIV2974/2009(H1N... 40.1 0.049
gb|GU367327.1| Influenza A virus (A/Salekhard/01/2009(H1N1)) ... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY053744.1| Influenza A virus (A/Russia/190/2009(H1N1)) se... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY053736.1| Influenza A virus (A/Russia/178/2009(H1N1)) se... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY053728.1| Influenza A virus (A/Russia/74/2009(H1N1)) seg... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB539048.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/NU-3/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB539047.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-49/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY053689.1| Influenza A virus (A/Russia/191/2009(H1N1)) se... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY053681.1| Influenza A virus (A/Russia/14/2009(H1N1)) seg... 40.1 0.049
gb|GU338362.1| Influenza A virus (A/Landstuhl/5950/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY053627.1| Influenza A virus (A/Russia/165/2009(H1N1)) se... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY053416.1| Influenza A virus (A/Russia/19/2009(H1N1)) seg... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY053373.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1935/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052266.1| Influenza A virus (A/Texas/42102708/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052146.1| Influenza A virus (A/New York/4398/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052839.1| Influenza A virus (A/Texas/45132202/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052743.1| Influenza A virus (A/Texas/45101424/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052695.1| Influenza A virus (A/Texas/45083819/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052615.1| Influenza A virus (A/Texas/44302533/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052551.1| Influenza A virus (A/Texas/45122774/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052503.1| Influenza A virus (A/Texas/45104026/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052366.1| Influenza A virus (A/Zavkhan/8299/2009(H1N1)) ... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB536770.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-62/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB536769.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-58/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB535747.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-60/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB535743.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-50/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB535742.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-48/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB535741.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/NU-2/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB535740.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-37/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB535739.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-30/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB535738.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-24/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052030.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1827/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052026.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/NS7362/2009(H1N... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052014.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/4021/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052013.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/4020/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052012.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/3855/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052006.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/3440/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052004.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/3371/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY052003.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/3370/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY051998.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/3364-2/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY051994.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/3278/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY051989.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/2924/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY051982.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1761/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY051967.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1751/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY051964.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1748/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY051949.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1687/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|GU211235.1| Influenza A virus (A/Omsk/02/2009(H1N1)) segme... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY050846.1| Influenza A virus (A/Ulaanbaatar/6133/2009(H1N... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY050845.1| Influenza A virus (A/Ulaanbaatar/6266/2009(H1N... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY051807.1| Influenza A virus (A/New York/4870/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY051783.1| Influenza A virus (A/New York/4844/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY049963.1| Influenza A virus (A/Santo Domingo/WR1059N/200... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY049955.1| Influenza A virus (A/Santo Domingo/WR1058N/200... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY049947.1| Influenza A virus (A/Santo Domingo/WR1057N/200... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY049571.1| Influenza A virus (A/Singapore/ON1156/2009(H1N... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY049068.1| Influenza A virus (A/Singapore/ON129/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530489.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/NU-1/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530487.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-42/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530486.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-41/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530485.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-40/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530484.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-39/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530483.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-38/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530482.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-36/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530481.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-35/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530480.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-34/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530479.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-33/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530478.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-32/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530477.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-31/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530476.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-29/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530475.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-28/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530474.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-27/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530473.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-26/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530472.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-25/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530471.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-22/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530470.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-18/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530469.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-17/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530468.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-16/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530466.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-14/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530465.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-13/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530464.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-12/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530463.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-11/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
dbj|AB530462.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-10/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY049713.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1501/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY049039.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1402/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|GU117765.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/I01/2009(H1N1)) ... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY047275.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1268/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY047272.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1267/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY047179.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1181/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY047176.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1179/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY047161.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1162/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY047118.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1096/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|GU014750.1| Influenza A virus (A/Hiroshima/201/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.049
gb|GQ894911.1| Influenza A virus (A/Oregon/20/2009(H1N1)) seg... 40.1 0.049
gb|GQ894830.1| Influenza A virus (A/Rhode Island/08/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY046065.1| Influenza A virus (A/Italy/132/2009(H1N1)) seg... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY046062.1| Influenza A virus (A/Italy/129/2009(H1N1)) seg... 40.1 0.049
gb|GQ527165.1| Influenza A virus (A/Singapore/TLL51/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY044997.1| Influenza A virus (A/New York/3828/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY044080.1| Influenza A virus (A/New York/3715/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.049
gb|CY044072.1| Influenza A virus (A/New York/3702/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.049
gb|GQ414768.1| Influenza A virus (A/Sao Paulo/43812/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.049
gb|GQ377095.1| Influenza A virus (A/California/24/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.049
gb|GQ359765.1| Influenza A virus (A/Stockholm/31/2009(H1N1)) ... 40.1 0.049
gb|GQ292961.1| Influenza A virus (A/Mexico City/22/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.049
gb|GQ232085.1| Influenza A virus (A/Guangdong/02/2009(H1N1)) ... 40.1 0.049
gb|GQ223435.1| Influenza A virus (A/Guangdong/05/2009(H1N1)) ... 40.1 0.049
gb|GQ132144.1| Influenza A virus (A/Canada-ON/RV1529/2009(H1N... 40.1 0.049