Rhiza Labs FluTracker Forum

Not just the WHO. My brother is a nurse/health educator in the Bay area, and he was talking to me months ago like I was insanely paranoid. When I said WILL YOU STOP?!, he finally realized I was informed but calm, and then we had an intelligent conversation.

Mild cases? Perhaps you can help me fill this in. Kinda short on the mild cases...

The point of more tests is that 10 samples from the Ukraine, for instance, has a mathematical statistical uncertainty that's through the roof. More samples would let us know if anyone whatsoever lived in the Ukraine after getting the D225G version, or died from the D225 version. If it really is a 100% thing as it appears. Plus they can test both the mouth and lungs and see if there are two separate viruses attacking a lot of people. I mean, how much can it cost? How hard is that?

_________________
If your leaders tell you the Kingdom is in the heavens, the birds will get there before you.
If they say it's beneath the ground, the fish will get there before you.
It is within you and outside you..P.Oxy 654

I was talking about the Antigenic Characterization testing. I agree they need to find out how wide spread it is. That can only be done through more testing. But they dont do things that way. They will wait till alot of people die in an given area. But by then it will have spread.

_________________
"The single biggest threat to man's continued dominace on the planet is the virus." Joshua Lederburg. PhD

hmmm, now I am more concerned than confused. Do some of you actual believe there is such a thing as truth?

Kurt Godel's Incompleteness Theorem in 1931 proved for all time that there's no Absolute Truth. All axiomatic systems of interest are incomplete, including DNA/RNA.

That's all long before you get to the Uncertainty of the Quantum Theory, it's the math the Quantum Theory uses.

But you can approach truth without limit.

_________________
If your leaders tell you the Kingdom is in the heavens, the birds will get there before you.
If they say it's beneath the ground, the fish will get there before you.
It is within you and outside you..P.Oxy 654

Both we and viruses live in the macroscopic world where quantum effects are not significant. On the scale we live in, there is truth. The box with the cat in it got opened a while ago. The cat is dead.

Godel's Incompleteness Theorem describes all math and logic, all DNA/RNA, all computers and computer programs, Quantum Theory or not. And yes, the Quantum Theory does describe macroscopic things. You go through a double slit experiment fast enough, you'll go thorough both and interfere with yourself, (when you're not looking). The largest object in the Universe we know of is the supermassive black holes at the center of the galaxies. They will all evaporate away eventually, due to Hawking Radiation from the Quantum Theory. The Quantum Theory not just affecting but obliterating the most massive things in the Universe.

(P.S. And no, the Cat live on in an infinite number of alternate Worlds according to the now most popular, Everett Many Worlds Interpretation.)

_________________
If your leaders tell you the Kingdom is in the heavens, the birds will get there before you.
If they say it's beneath the ground, the fish will get there before you.
It is within you and outside you..P.Oxy 654

I like you. Yes, I am familiar with Godel. I am too massive to pass through the slit, and therefore will not interfere with myself unless I am rendered into a Bose Einstein condensate. Black holes evaporate on a quantum scale, at the event horizon, as virtual particle pairs appear on each side of the event horizon. But agreed, that is a valid example of quantum events affecting macroscopic objects. And yes, there are many cats, but only one I have to deal with.
BUT, we digress from the subject of this board...as a moderator, I have to say we should continue any more discussion of abstract things like this via PM or email.

A supermassive black hole isn't macroscopic? What is? Obliterating it isn't a "significant effect"? What is a significant effect?

And there is no absolute truth in the pure formal mathematics. As proved as anything in human existance, far more proved than anything in science. It's the math science uses.

Historical Introduction --- A Century of Controversy Over the Foundations of Mathematics
G.J. Chaitin's 2 March 2000 Carnegie Mellon University School of Computer Science Distinguished Lecture. The speaker was introduced by Manuel Blum. The lecture was videotaped; this is an edited transcript which appeared on pp. 12-21 of a special issue of Complexity magazine on ``Limits in Mathematics and Physics'' (Vol. 5, No. 5, May/June 2000).

...The real world we know is an absolute mess --- right? --- everything's complicated and messy. But the one place where things should be absolutely clear, black or white, is in pure mathematics.
So this is sort of what Hilbert is saying, and he proposed this as a goal, to have this formalization of all of mathematics and eliminate all the problems. Now this was a program, this was not supposed to be something you did over a weekend. Hilbert proposed this as a goal for putting mathematics on a very firm foundation. And he and a group of very bright collaborators, including John von Neumann, set to work on this, and for a while, for thirty years, it looked sort of encouraging. And then --- this is a quick summary of a century of work --- then as I'm sure all of you know there were a few little problems!

The problems are 1931, Kurt Gödel, and 1936, Alan Turing.

1931 Gödel
1936 Turing

They showed that it could not be done, that there were fundamental obstacles to formalizing all of mathematics and making mathematics absolutely black and white and absolutely crystal clear. Remember what Hilbert is proposing is that we should formalize all of mathematics so that everyone on planet earth can agree that a proof is either correct or incorrect. The rules of the game should be absolutely explicit, it should be an artificial language and then mathematics will give you absolute truth. ``Absolute truth'' should be underlined in a very beautiful font and you should hear the angels singing when you say these words! This was the thought that we mathematicians have absolute truth. It's ours --- no one else has it, only us! That was the idea.

So it turns out this doesn't quite work.

http://www.cs.umaine.edu/~chaitin/cmu.html

_________________
If your leaders tell you the Kingdom is in the heavens, the birds will get there before you.
If they say it's beneath the ground, the fish will get there before you.
It is within you and outside you..P.Oxy 654

And it does apply, The Halting Problem, which is the same thing as the Incompleteness Theorem, proves for all eternity, no matter what, that the result of altering the programming of DNA/RNA, such as changing a D225 to a D225G, is eternally unknowable until you actually do it and test it.

Any scientist that claims we can calculate the effect of altering DNA with certainty is ignorant of what mathematics is.

_________________
If your leaders tell you the Kingdom is in the heavens, the birds will get there before you.
If they say it's beneath the ground, the fish will get there before you.
It is within you and outside you..P.Oxy 654