D225E in Norway

TheHappyScientist · **Joined:** Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:54 pm **Posts:** 878

What I want to know is can you take a nasal sample out of a patient and get
D225E
then take a lung sample and see D225G.
Are they in co-circulation in the SAME human, and is it already here in the US in these folks on Ecmo and vents but being missed because they are relying on nasal swabs?

Has ANYONE done ANY comparison between lung and nasal samples on US mortalities?

:scratch:

niman · **Posted:** Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:06 pm

TheHappyScientist wrote:

What I want to know is can you take a nasal sample out of a patient and get
D225E
then take a lung sample and see D225G.
Are they in co-circulation in the SAME human, and is it already here in the US in these folks on Ecmo and vents but being missed because they are relying on nasal swabs?

Has ANYONE done ANY comparison between lung and nasal samples on US mortalities?

:scratch:

The have been several cases reported who tested negative multiple times, but were H1N1 positive at autopsy (where lungs would have been sampled).

niman · **Posted:** Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:08 pm

TheHappyScientist wrote:

What I want to know is can you take a nasal sample out of a patient and get
D225E
then take a lung sample and see D225G.
Are they in co-circulation in the SAME human, and is it already here in the US in these folks on Ecmo and vents but being missed because they are relying on nasal swabs?

Has ANYONE done ANY comparison between lung and nasal samples on US mortalities?

:scratch:

Mixtures will usually be an RBD chnage plus wild type, so nasal swab will be wild type, while lung will have and RBD change (or nasal swab is negative becaause virus has been cleared from upper respiratory tract).

Dakota · **Joined:** Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:09 pm **Posts:** 14

niman wrote:

wotan wrote:

niman wrote:

Here are Genbank sequences with D225E

gb|CY052015.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/4023/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY052007.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/3478/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY051991.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/3059/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY051987.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/2690/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY051986.1| Influenza A virus (A/Norway/2674/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY051982.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1761/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY051976.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1758/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY051964.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1748/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY051955.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1698/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY051940.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1674/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY051937.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1672/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|GU214058.1| Influenza A virus (A/Serbia/3547/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY050319.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1641/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY050316.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1637/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY050313.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1632/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY050307.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1606/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY050304.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1605/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY050301.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1604/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
dbj|AB530488.1| Influenza A virus (A/Nagasaki/HA-44/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049742.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1592/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049736.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1587/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049728.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1545/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049707.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1479/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049704.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1478/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049051.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1436/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049027.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1379/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049024.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1369/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049018.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1350/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049015.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1333/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049012.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1331/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049003.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1304/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY049000.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1300/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047307.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1286/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047290.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1273/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047287.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1272/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047278.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1269/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047269.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1265/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047266.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1260/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047263.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1254/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047257.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1249/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047254.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1248/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047243.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1237/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047240.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1236/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047230.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1227/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047227.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1222/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047221.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1215/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047215.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1209/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047203.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1205/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047200.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1199/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047188.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1187/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047185.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1183/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047182.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1182/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047164.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1165/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047158.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1161/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|CY047137.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/S1120/2009(H1N1... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ485661.1| Influenza A virus (A/Almati/01/2009(H1N1)) seg... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ457519.1| Influenza A virus (A/Changsha/78/2009(H1N1)) s... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ457514.1| Influenza A virus (A/California/25/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ422381.1| Influenza A virus (A/Milan/83/2009(H1N1)) segm... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ422380.1| Influenza A virus (A/Milan/80/2009(H1N1)) segm... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ421203.1| Influenza A virus (A/Ancona/05/2009(H1N1)) seg... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ387430.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/378/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ387382.1| Influenza A virus (A/Italy/172/2009(H1N1)) hem... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ365446.1| Influenza A virus (A/Sapporo/1/2009(H1N1)) seg... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ355305.1| Influenza A virus (A/Catalonia/387/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ351314.1| Influenza A virus (A/Hong Kong/2369/2009(H1N1)... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ258700.1| Influenza A virus (A/Athens/893/2009(H1N1)) se... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ249333.1| Influenza A virus (A/Paris/2591/2009(H1N1)) se... 40.1 0.048
gb|GQ160534.1| Influenza A virus (A/New Jersey/01/2009(H1N1))... 40.1 0.048

Maybe they haven't released everything?

The list looks pretty comprehensive with samples colled from May through October. The sequences were deposited yesterday. I would say this all that they have.

From an article (published this past Friday) in one of the leading newspapers in Norway (translation via Google):

Quote:

Laboratory tests from 70 patients are examined, of which eight patients have died. Total is the mutation found in three of the patients. Two of them are dead, while the third is healthy again after having been admitted with serious illness. He became ill in August this year, and declared healthy same month, according to Health Directorate.

Laboratory samples were sent Tuesday to the World Health Organization reference laboratory in London, where it was confirmed a mutation. This means that the original virus has changed slightly.

So, it sounds as though samples from 70 patients were sent from Norway to Mill Hill.

Anatine · **Posted:** Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:35 pm

Is it possible to 'acquire" D225G with a vaccin ? I know this is not a 2 cents question...

niman · **Posted:** Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:37 pm

I think I may dismissed other samples prematurely. There are only 25 at Genbank and only one has D225G (and it is mixture). I went back to Friday evening reports, as well as WHO's briefing on Norway, and there is NO doubt that all of those reports were talking about D225G. The WHO listing of other locations with the Norway "mutation", including Ukraine, exactly matches D255G. Similarly, D225G would be expected to direct the virus to lungs, and D225G is a chnage that would be a concern to anyone who has seen it (other than the writer of the WHO Ukraine press release which said nothing was significant).

I suspect the some samples may have been sent to Mill Hill, but only those that where likely or possible D225G. Mill Hill might also do some receptor binding studies (in Skehel lab) to see how similar Norway is to Ukraine (in binding profile).

niman · **Posted:** Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:38 pm

Anatine wrote:

Is it possible to 'acquire" D225G with a vaccin ?

The vaccine target was not the clone with D225G.

Anatine · **Posted:** Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:49 pm

niman wrote:

Anatine wrote:

Is it possible to 'acquire" D225G with a vaccin ?

The vaccine target was not the clone with D225G.

Let"s ask the question again :blink:

Does it make sense to think the vaccin may contain materials to get D225G mutation ? Does this question make sense ?

niman · **Posted:** Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:02 pm

Anatine wrote:

niman wrote:

Anatine wrote:

Is it possible to 'acquire" D225G with a vaccin ?

The vaccine target was not the clone with D225G.

Let"s ask the question again :blink:

Does it make sense to think the vaccin may contain materials to get D225G mutation ? Does this question make sense ?

No. D225G is not in the vaccine currently being used in vaccinations (it was in a clone NOT selected for scale up).

Rick · **Joined:** Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:40 am **Posts:** 575

niman wrote:

TheHappyScientist wrote:

What I want to know is can you take a nasal sample out of a patient and get
D225E
then take a lung sample and see D225G.
Are they in co-circulation in the SAME human, and is it already here in the US in these folks on Ecmo and vents but being missed because they are relying on nasal swabs?

Has ANYONE done ANY comparison between lung and nasal samples on US mortalities?

:scratch:

The have been several cases reported who tested negative multiple times, but were H1N1 positive at autopsy (where lungs would have been sampled).

It sure seems to me that the D225G is doing the killing, and their measurment system is the pits. No tellin' if it's from the nose or the lungs, no tellin' if it's D225 or D225G, or what's going on at 190. No telling what percentage of the explosively damaged bloody lung samples sequenced are D225G, now or 6 months ago or 1918. This should be real easy to sort out with a few tests.

Stunning how little data they have. What do they do all day, sit around with their feet up on the table?

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D225E in Norway

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