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 Post subject: Re: situation on Ukraine
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:27 pm 
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Posts: 192
Cascadians wrote:
Dr Niman, your personal story shows a salient fact that many others are observing:

Ppl are getting H1N1 more than 1x. Some have experienced swine flu several times since last spring.

They are asking, "Why am I now not immune? How many times can I get this flu?"


It also appears that the re-infections are worse than the original. I would have agreed with the "mild flu" theme the first time. My family had all the flu symptoms but they were mild. I saw no need to seek Tamiflu for anyone in my family. The second time was far, far worse and made me a vaccine believer. I wish I understood why it was worse; we should have had some antibodies. I pray not to see a third and have no patience for the "mild flu" reteric.


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 Post subject: Re: situation on Ukraine
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:59 pm
Posts: 58
Cancadians wrote:
But why would they all ignore science so blatantly? It makes them look like fools and arouses suspicion. While it is true that most of the world's population is scientifically illiterate, still some glaring inconsistencies are becoming apparent and that only feeds into the whackadoodlery.

If there was honesty, transparency, intelligence and adherence to science, the world would not be wasting so much time and lives would be saved.

On the one hand you have innumerable WHO and CDC articles stating emphatically for many weeks now that H1N1 is the only global influenza circulating, and then you have these 'official' government fools directly contradicting that.

One does not have to look far to see that fools are everywhere inside CDC.
CDC bureaucrats are "slow on the uptake" : (1) No fever => No pH1N1 => Stay in classroom. (2). Symptom free for 24 hours => go back to classroom to share the virus with your classmates.

Do you think these CDC bureaucrats are "honest, transparent, intelligent and adhering to science"?


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 Post subject: Re: situation on Ukraine
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:44 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:31 am
Posts: 164
niman wrote:
I can also speak from personal experience.

Thank you for sharing your story!! I found it very enlightening; it explains a lot about what has been happening in our family. My kids have missed more school this semester than they have all the other years they have been in school combined; I keep wondering why we can't catch a break...they get well then weeks later are sick again. Things make more sense in the context of repeated infection of the same virus.


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 Post subject: Re: situation on Ukraine
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:28 am
Posts: 587
Location: Netherlands
Offical Report ECDC (European Center for Disease Prevention and Contol ) about Europe and Ukraine.

PDF: http://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopi ... 900hrs.pdf


Pandemic in Europe ECDC:
http://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopi ... break.aspx

_________________
http://mexicaansegriep.uwstart.nl | http://twitter.com/H1N1Nederland


Last edited by H1N1 Netherlands on Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: situation on Ukraine
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:31 am
Posts: 164
kah wrote:
It also appears that the re-infections are worse than the original. I would have agreed with the "mild flu" theme the first time. My family had all the flu symptoms but they were mild. I saw no need to seek Tamiflu for anyone in my family. The second time was far, far worse and made me a vaccine believer. I wish I understood why it was worse; we should have had some antibodies. I pray not to see a third and have no patience for the "mild flu" reteric.
Our family followed the same pattern. Anecdotally, the third time was pretty mild for my son, so maybe there is hope of increased immunity. Of note: every time we have been sick with what I have assumed was H1N1, we had no fevers...but lower than normal body temps. That seems to be the biggest indication for it in our family. :confused:


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 Post subject: Re: situation on Ukraine
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:31 am
Posts: 164
H1N1 Netherlands wrote:
Offical Report ECDC (European Center for Disease Prevention and Contol ) about Europe and Ukraine.

PDF: http://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopi ... 900hrs.pdf


Pandemic in Europe ECDC:
http://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopi ... break.aspx

Of note:

Quote:
It is clear that the pandemic (H1N1) 2009 has established itself in Ukraine and it is likely that the rapidly evolving situation in Ukraine is mainly related to the pandemic. However, at this stage, others causes for clusters of respiratory illness, specifically in the western oblasts cannot be ruled out.
:scratch:


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 Post subject: Re: situation on Ukraine
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:59 pm
Posts: 58
kah wrote:
The second time was far, far worse and made me a vaccine believer. I wish I understood why it was worse; we should have had some antibodies. I pray not to see a third and have no patience for the "mild flu" reteric.

If you listen to some of the Dr. Niman's interview by Jeff Rense, you will recall that Dr. Niman stated that the viral load is getting higher as this pandemic progresses. The hypothesis is that if your initial viral load is high enough, even if the virus stay the same, you chance of re-infection is very high. Furthermore, with higher viral load, the symptom will be worse.

When time permits, I will go through some of Dr. Niman's interview MP3 file and time-mark the relevant conversation on the subject of re-infection.


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 Post subject: Re: situation on Ukraine
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:07 pm
Posts: 127
The huge numbers of people in govt and private sector responding to the conspiracies is a symptom of a wider distrust and concern about the direction of governments all over the World combined with a medium like the Internet which allows the alternative news to propagate.

Unfortunately the Baxter incident (real incident, wrong conclusions as to what it means) combined with the WHO and CDC lying, fudging stats, withholding sequences lends credibility to conspiracies which would probably be far less effective. People do not trust vaccines, the companies that make them and now government. All that suspicion and distrust makes the wack a doodle stuff more palatable and believable.

I'm not opposed to conspiracy, evil acts do take place but I demand a level of proof most of them cannot stand up to. I don't know why people cannot see that this entire flu conspiracy would be impossible due to the huge numbers of scientists and researchers who would have to be complicit. Anyone who examines a vaccine or virus sample would have to be willing to be part of a conspiracy which would threaten them and their families - it just isn't possible.

When government officials begin subscribing to this, either to appease the public or because they are just as foolish we step into the realm of manslaughter, IMO. There is way too much ignorance leading to people dying to stand back and watch quietly.

My contact who left Ukraine the other day said they were using body temperature as the screening test. As usual there will be no containment what so ever of the Ukraine pathogen. Let us all hope it is not a mutation.


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 Post subject: Re: situation on Ukraine
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:28 am
Posts: 587
Location: Netherlands
emrj wrote:
H1N1 Netherlands wrote:
Offical Report ECDC (European Center for Disease Prevention and Contol ) about Europe and Ukraine.

PDF: http://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopi ... 900hrs.pdf


Pandemic in Europe ECDC:
http://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/healthtopi ... break.aspx

Of note:

Quote:
It is clear that the pandemic (H1N1) 2009 has established itself in Ukraine and it is likely that the rapidly evolving situation in Ukraine is mainly related to the pandemic. However, at this stage, others causes for clusters of respiratory illness, specifically in the western oblasts cannot be ruled out.
:scratch:


They can't stop this, they only can take care of them and take preventive steps outside the epicentrum...

_________________
http://mexicaansegriep.uwstart.nl | http://twitter.com/H1N1Nederland


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:31 am
Posts: 164
All indications are that the situation is as bad in Belarus as it is in the Ukraine. Unfortunately, Belarus is much more closed than Ukraine, so reports will be late in coming. You can find some information on the real situation by looking at the comments of people to news stories on this site: http://www.charter97.org/en/news/

Examples:
Quote:
Three days ago two of my friends died. The diagnosis of pneumonia as a complication of influenza. A friend of a friend they knew and did not communicate. Everyone and tridtsatka nebylo. Died in hospital on the second day, as ill. (protective masks are not worn!)

Quote:
People! Look at what they are doing!!

Seriously ill - 5 days to recover and then to the machine - on to infect others !!!!!! 5 days otbolel and went to work and died at work - in the end of Statistics death by natural causes !!!!!!! not influenza

Quote:
On our street, this week died 4 young people, the cause of death in hospitals called different, but not H1N1. Four people on our street and then only those who are familiar to me. Such a density of chance? Is this OCR? What is the situation reminds me of Chernobyl. I want to believe that the epidemic we do not, sorry for the people that can not be together, acquaintances or strangers.

How many of you know one person, much less more than one person, who has died of swine flu?


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