Rhiza Labs FluTracker Forum

1,347,538 Influenza/ARI

73,373 Hospitalized

282 Dead


http://www.moz.gov.ua/ua/main/press/?do ... ry_state0=

Do you not think that any and every possible "alternative" preparation or lifestyle change was tried in 1918? I used alternative in quotes, as that would have been conventional back then. Why would it work now?

He said swine flu is dominant, but. if you have more information to say only swine flu must be considered please release this information.

The Ukraine H1N1 story is pretty straight forward. Only the wackadoodlers and witholding of data have complicated the STORIES, but the facts are pretty straight forward.
The outbreak is classical swine flu, with a high number of cases and detailed descriptions of hemorhhagic cases. The hemorrhagic cases are widespread, but most detail hasn't been widley discussed, so the general public as well as the wackadoodlers, think this is a dramatic change.
Ukraine is of interest becaus of the large number of cases that apeared suddenly. This led WHO to send a team and to put out updates on Nov 1 and Nov3. They promised more but have not delivered, due largely to a desire to not discuss or release the sequences.
The hocus pocus about "other viruses" is just a thinly veiled attempt to confuse. Rare infections are used to defect attention for the number of H1N1 cases. Testing will slow and the government will focus on lab confirmed cases, which will be delayed because of minimal testing. This is all SOP.

Kah .........sorry I'm a little late for dinner on this subject but


!Denis wrote:
TMV: "It should also be noted that the "Presidential Emergency" . . . allow for those adjuvants which were purchased to actually be used without any agency approval."

Where do you get this???

The state of emergency in the US is very limited at this point. The only US law that is implicated is the Social Security Act. The purpose is to give front-line health care workers more lee-way to perform their jobs. Like, a nurse can cross state lines, if necessary, and still work under his/her license in the home state.

I don't see any of the powers you are talking about regarding vaccines. Some people have even claimed Obama has declared martial law under the declaration. The emergency powers are very limited.

Below is the governments website listing the clinical trials that are currently recruiting, active and completed in reference to H1N1 vaccines, includine vaccines with adjuvants.

http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/resul ... ine+trials

I would have to go back and research the topic, but I believe the government can allow drugs that are not currently approved to be used in a state of emergency. I believe that would include drugs in the pipeline.

the FDA and the government can pretty much do what ever they want emergency or not I have M.S and didn't find out until I was on the drug Avonex that it was not approved by the FDA ( human guinea pig) and I had already been on the drug for 3yrs. So all this gov -emergency is a bunch of B.S. period . ....Profit or control it doesn't matter!

What's happening in Ukraine, sounds like what might happen if this virus were able to really put itself OUT there, as easily as seasonal flu does.

It's like seeing sixteen army ants in your path, and stomping everyone of them victoriously.... NO problem!

"These Army Ants are NOT very virulent. They MUST not be the same kind of army ants we've heard about in history... they just do not seem to be the killers that some people say they are."

But when you find yourself caught in the middle of a swarm of millions of them, you're in trouble.

The Ants are still ants. They haven't genetically been altered.

Why did THIS person die? And why did THIS person not?

they were all bitten by the same kind of ants.... We know, because we found the same ants on them both.

(It's as clear as the writing on the wall to me.) It's the ONLY thing that makes it all make sense.

Whatever change is required to make this virus spread as easily as seasonal flu, and puts the virus out in greater quantities than it has been doing, will be the change that shakes this Nation to its knees.

cutz, yeah, basically I agree with what you and TMV are saying, but it's just the details. A lot of folks have been saying Obama has all sorts of powers he doesn't have under the national emergency.

All the expanded FDA and drug use powers have nothing to do with the presidential declaration. Those powers were put in place weeks before. HHS and FDA don't need a presidential declaration for that.

As a lawyer and a pharmacologist I would say this: if I had been on a drug for 3 years that was not FDA approved and I had not been advised was experimental and I had not signed a consent, I would be having a serious talk first with my care-giver and then with my attorney.

As a grad student I used to front up as a Guinea pig for drug studies to help pay the rent. The studies were a couple or three days, and the pay was pretty good -- like a few hundred dollars. If you've been a Guinea pig for 3 years, you ought to have a bundle coming.

Speaking of knee shaking, the current pandemic can be explained simply on the basis of viral load (and associated selection).
I am certain I have been infected at least twice (first of two was PCR confirmed), and there have been MANY media and anectdotal reports of re-infections (which is also expained by viral load).
Initially, most of the population is naive. As a result, there can be infections involving low viral loads. The patient is infected with a samll amount of virus and has mild symptoms and recovers. However, since the level of virus was low, the immune reponse was relatively weak, just enough to clear the virus.

Soon many have a low level of immunity, so there is selection for infections involving a higher viral load. As aresult, te level of virus per indiidual increase to overcome the low level. Those with a low level of immunity again get infected and again the infection is mild, but some are infected by the higher level and do not have the protective antibody and end up with more severe disease, which is why more are ending up in the hospital and more are getting hemorrhagic symptoms and dying.

This cycle will get repeated again in the next wave, which will increase the frequncy of severe cases and deaths and all of this can be done without genetic change - all that is required is a higher concentration of virus in circulation.

Dr. Niman,

Is it also not possible that the body resorts to using it's entire WBC arsenal to fight off the flu, then it is depleted to the point it can be reinfected easily? I know it takes time for the body to grow new blood cells....any thoughts on this?

I've also been infected twice. If you recall, you started a thread (elsewhere) using my April infection as example Niman. Family got it again recently, self included. 2nd infection was actually milder than 1st - of which the 1st was not "mild" in terms of seasonal flu, but definitely mild in terms of H1N1. And yet the 2nd was still milder, although more impact on lungs - it also lingered longer. My youngest son had identical everything to me both go arounds, however he was a bit more serious the 2nd go around. He's 5. I'm 47, a cursed smoker with asthma and horrid lungs. (so no pity for me - just rewards for stupidity)

I've thought about three things since the second infection.
1) I might have developed some immunity 1st go around - resulting in lesser severity 2nd time around.
2) I'd taken to using quite a bit of antibacterial throat spray prior to 2nd infection, which might have cut down on viral load. My youngest did not take any throat sprays - possibly resulting in higher load? and subsequent slightly increased severity during 2nd go around.
3) The 2nd go around still had different characteristics. Not as much gastric side effect - more lung. It was markedly different on those points.

And I agree 100% on pretty much everything you say regarding viral load. Makes perfect sense. But I'm still not ready to jump away from the additional possibility that we've had some significant changes in the virus itself which are also a contributing factor.

Of course.... responsible action on the part of the WHO would remedy that entire argument by simply providing the facts - by simply releasing the sequences.

Note: if anyone is interested, I use an Oil of Oregano solution as a mouth spray, which I use at regular intervals while in public, which is infrequent. If anyone finds merit in the concept of viral load as a substantial factor in degree of illness - perhaps you should add it to your preparedness action list in the event of a severe outbreak in your area.