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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:15 am 
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savecore wrote:
I am in contact with Dr Ott and Drew Raines. BOTH were contacted independently by women claiming to be wives of Navy personel. Neither provided names of ships, but as of today the story is still under investigation.

These stories are not "made up ", they are either true or they are targeted disinformation, .

Consider this story pending further investigation.

There was no pandemic vaccine in April. These stories are nonsense. At best the crew received a seasonal flu vaccine that had NOTHING to do with swine H1N1. The "investigation" is by "investigators" from la la land.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:19 am 
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SteveMartin wrote:
wotan wrote:
Welcome to the board SteveMartin! Here was the first thing that came to my attention:

Quote:
1. Unnamed US Navy vessel put to sea in April with 347 man crew.
2. Entire crew was vaccinated with H1N1 Swine Flu vaccine shortly after they put to sea.


So, we didn't know about the H1N1 pandemic at that time, or at best we were only just learning about it. So how can we have already had a vaccine?


Thanks for the welcome.

Military exposures to viruses created in labs could occur at any time unrelated to the official stories from controlled media given with regard to emergence/exposure among civilian populations. Similarly, vaccines for these viruses could have been created at any time.

That is not a statement of belief, just a fact that other things from mainstream media reports are, of course, possible.

It's coulda shoulda nonsense.

There was no pandmeic vaccine in April, so vaccination of the crew with such a vaccine is simply nonsense.

Your e-mail was a non-starter at line 2.

It pure internet babble.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:26 am 
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Quote:
He claims the USS Boxer information has nothing to do with the information he is purportedly receiving from Navy wives in 34 different conversations dating back to May.

Thought the wives of the sailors didn't give the names of the ships for "fear of prosecution," so how would he know if the story did or didn't refer to the Boxer ARG? Second, the version circulating around the net has a CBS news story attached to it to try to give the rest of the anonymous, unsourced hearsay some credibility. The implication is that the ships from the CBS story are the same ships being referred to in the unsourced hearsay story and that those events were the beginning of what's now occurring. If this isn't what's being implied, why would the CBS story even be there at all? That CBS story was about the ships of the Boxer ARG, on board which there was an influenza outbreak a few months ago.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:37 am 
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MKey1 wrote:
Quote:
He claims the USS Boxer information has nothing to do with the information he is purportedly receiving from Navy wives in 34 different conversations dating back to May.

Thought the wives of the sailors didn't give the names of the ships for "fear of prosecution," so how would he know if the story did or didn't refer to the Boxer ARG? Second, the version circulating around the net has a CBS news story attached to it to try to give the rest of the anonymous, unsourced hearsay some credibility. The implication is that the ships from the CBS story are the same ships being referred to in the unsourced hearsay story and that those events were the beginning of what's now occurring. If this isn't what's being implied, why would the CBS story even be there at all? That CBS story was about the ships of the Boxer ARG, on board which there was an influenza outbreak a few months ago.

Yes, the flu outbreak on the ship was reported May 5 (when there was NO vaccine) and mapped back then

Report Date: 5/5/2009
Reported Location: San Diego, CA
Suspected Cases: 39
Confirmed Cases: 12

The number of confirmed cases of the so-called swine flu among the crew of the San Diego-based amphibious transport dock Dubuque has risen to 12, A Navy spokesman said. The outbreak has caused Pacific Fleet to cancel the ship s planned June 1 deployment. As of Friday, 12 sailors from the ship were confirmed to have the virus, also called H1N1, said Cmdr. Cappy Surette, a Navy spokesman at the Pentagon. Another 39 sailors who exhibited flu-like symptoms were being tested for H1N1. The ship was weeks away from a four-month deployment on its Pacific Partnership 2009 cruise, Surette said. The Navy has decided to proceed with an abundance of caution, he said A replacement ship or unit has not been identified, but the Navy is exploring its options to meet operational commitments, he said. Adm. Robert Willard, commander of Pacific Fleet in Hawaii, made the decision to cancel the mission. We are certain we will contain this virus, and the ship will not pose a threat; however, we do not want to cause concern of the spread of this virus in such remote areas of the South Pacific, he was quoted as saying in a news release Tuesday. The Pacific Partnership cruise for 2009 was to make humanitarian aid stops in Kiribati, the Marshall Islands, Samoa, the Solomon Islands and Tonga. In a news release Tuesday, Pacific Fleet announced that Pacific Partnership 2009 will proceed, albeit in a truncated form, likely with teams of specialists flown onto each island by military or civilian aircraft or arrive using available Navy ships. The Dubuque sailors come after four other confirmed Navy cases of H1N1, all in the San Diego area, as of Friday. They are: A hospital corpsman at Camp Pendleton. A sailor at the 32nd Street Naval Station. A sailor at Naval Amphibious Base Coronado. A sailor with Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron 77 at Naval Air Station North Island.
Source: http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/05/n ... ue_050809/

http://flutracker.rhizalabs.com/flu/gma ... 75&zoom=10

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:49 am 
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MKey1 wrote:
Quote:
He claims the USS Boxer information has nothing to do with the information he is purportedly receiving from Navy wives in 34 different conversations dating back to May.

Thought the wives of the sailors didn't give the names of the ships for "fear of prosecution," so how would he know if the story did or didn't refer to the Boxer ARG? Second, the version circulating around the net has a CBS news story attached to it to try to give the rest of the anonymous, unsourced hearsay some credibility. The implication is that the ships from the CBS story are the same ships being referred to in the unsourced hearsay story and that those events were the beginning of what's now occurring. If this isn't what's being implied, why would the CBS story even be there at all? That CBS story was about the ships of the Boxer ARG, on board which there was an influenza outbreak a few months ago.

These stories mix and match various news stories and create constant moving targets. However, it is quite simple to cut to the chase.

The pandemic vaccine has been through clinical trials worldwide. There were multiple trials in the US as well as Australia. The results from the Australia trial have been PUBLISHED.

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/ful ... type=HWCIT

There were NO ill effects. The trial using children had NO ill effects. The trial on pregnant women has already begun.

The claims of 98% infection by the vaccine are UTTER NONSENSE. The is NO data to support such claims beyond internet rumors that have NO basis in fact.

The hoax might have worked in May or June, BEFORE the clinical trials, but at this time the HOAX is exposed as a HOAX, and perpetuated by those who ignore VERY clear data showing that the vaccine (which is the same as the seasonal flu vaccine, exceot the H and N are swappped) is safe, internet BABBLE notwithstanding.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:55 am 
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From the Australian study

Adverse Events

No deaths, serious adverse events, or adverse events of special interest were reported. Stopping rules were not triggered, and no subjects withdrew from the study. Since the study is ongoing and individual study-group assignments remain blinded, data regarding solicited adverse events are presented as aggregate totals of both study-dose groups

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/ful ... type=HWCIT

The Navy ship vaccine story is a HOAX pure and simple.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:01 am 
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Now for the Flying Dutchman of Flu, Naval Version, Part Two...

I've checked out some of the particulars from SteveMartin's post. Here goes...

The CBS story being used to corroborate these rumors AND the military influenza surveillance network report the ships involved were from the Boxer ARG, consisting of The USS Boxer (a helo carrier), the USS Lake Champlain, the USS Comstock, and the USS New Orleans.

Quote:
7/29/2009 In recent weeks a small number of ARG Sailors and 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) Marines aboard USS Boxer (LHD 4), USS Lake Champlain (CG 57), USS Comstock (LSD 45) and USS New Orleans (LPD 18) had symptoms of an influenza-like illness (ILI). Sixty-nine crew members were officially confirmed to have had strain H1N1 virus, while many others were confirmed to have a typical seasonal flu strain. All had very mild symptoms that lasted a few days and were able to continue all of their shipboard duties. http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=47236


1. Unnamed US Navy vessel put to sea in April with 347 man crew.
The ARG actually put to sea in JANUARY for a 7-month deployment. They returned in August.

Quote:
13th MEU departs San Diego for deployment (Posted : Tuesday Jan 13, 2009 10:53:29 EST)
SAN DIEGO — As sailors and Marines clung tightly to their loved ones in the Friday morning chill, in the final moments before boarding their ship…The morning departure marked the start of yet another overseas deployment for the Ponce family, as well as for more than 4,000 sailors and Marines with the Boxer Expeditionary Strike Group and the 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit… With the sound of its horn blaring, the Boxer pulled away from the pier as the crowd of families — babies in arms, toddlers in strollers, teary-eyed wives, grandparents and friends — fell silent. One sobbing young girl, perhaps four or five, cried loudly repeatedly, “Goodbye, Daddy.” About 100 stood at the pier’s end, watching Boxer pick up speed through San Diego Bay for the Pacific Ocean, where it met up with its strike group for the trek… Navy Capt. Peter Dallman, the strike group commander, is leading the naval force to the Western Pacific and to the Persian Gulf on the scheduled seven-month deployment.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2009/01/marine_esg_depart_010909mar/


2. Entire crew was vaccinated with H1N1 Swine Flu vaccine shortly after they put to sea.
The vaccine development companies received their SEED stock, the stock from which a vaccine is eventually developed, in LATE MAY and early JUNE. None of them had a seed stock in April, and no vaccine had been manufactured or was available to even BE tested in April:
Quote:
Vaccine development delay
Date: Wed 20 May 2009
Source: Los Angeles Times [edited]
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sci-flu-vaccine20-2009may20,0,415215.story

The World Health Organization (WHO) said Tuesday [19 May 2009] that
it was taking longer than anticipated to prepare the seed stock
needed to manufacture a vaccine for the H1N1 influenza virus. At a
week long meeting in Geneva to discuss the outbreak of the so-called
swine flu, the global health agency said the virus wasn't growing
very quickly in the laboratory. That means vaccine makers won't be
able to start production until mid-July 2009 at the earliest.
http://www.promedmail.org/pls/otn/f?p=2400:1001:19224::::F2400_P1001_BACK_PAGE,F2400_P1001_ARCHIVE_NUMBER,F2400_P1001_USE_ARCHIVE:1001,20090520.1893,Y


Not only that, but the Boxer ARG was busy doing other things than testing vaccines that didn’t exist back then…
Quote:
Sun April 12, 2009 “Capt. Richard Phillips' ship, the Maersk Alabama, was stormed by pirates 350 miles off Somalia on Wednesday morning. He was "resting comfortably" on the USS Boxer after his rescue Sunday night, according to the Navy.” http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/12/somalia.pirates/

GULF OF ADEN (NNS) -- The Boxer Amphibious Ready Group (ARG) and 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) began an ARG/ Marine Expeditionary Unit Exercise (MEUEX) May 19, in the Gulf of Aden and ashore at Camp Lemonier in Djibouti.


3. Crew sickened so severely that other ships had to respond to render aid. 16 Medical Dr.s put aboard from an unnamed aircraft carrier and other responding vessels. Total of 50 Navy personnel sent aboard to respond to crisis.
The number 16 is (coincidentally) the number of swine flu cases still active aboard the USS Iwo Jima in June, and the number 50 was the total number of cases on that ship, both given in the same news piece.
http://www.wvec.com/news/norfolk/storie ... caffd.html

4. Two of the crew of 347 died - including the Captain of the ship (a Lieutenant Commander) and a Chief Petty Officer.
No corroboration concerning the deaths of any high-ranking military officers can be found either in official or unofficial sources. The military family blogs have no mention of these alleged deaths. Also, according to a few Navy friends, it is highly unlikely that a Lieutenant Commander would even be in charge of a vessel this size (347 crew). This is supported by the following comments gleaned from other blogs:
Quote:
"The size of the crew would indicate a guided missile destroyer (DDG.) But I would suspect those are captained by full CMDR. A frigate (FFG) would have a LT. CMDR in command but carries a crew of about 180."

"They stated that the captain of a ship with over 300 persons was a Lt. Commander, which I find strange. I would think a ship of that size would have a Commander as skipper."


5. 50 personnel sent aboard to help are quarantined in Navy hospital in Balboa, Spain after 10 of them caught the flu from the ship's crew. Two of the 50 quarantined are in serious condition at last report.
One Small problem. Okay, it's a rather BIG problem for the credibility of this whole "news" story. There is NO naval hospital to be quarantined at in Balboa, Spain. In fact, there’s no naval hospital AT ALL in Balboa, Spain. While there is actually a Balboa, Spain, it’s in Basque/Northern Spain, well inland and doesn’t have a military base. The US Naval Base in Spain is actually located at Rota, on the opposite side of the country, and that’s where the naval hospital in Spain is located. See the following list of naval medical facilities: http://www.theagapecenter.com/Hospitals/Navy.htm Of interest, there is a Naval Medical Center in Balboa Park, San Diego, USA. However, San Diego and Spain are a wee bit apart on a map, and if the reporter can’t correctly tell San Diego from Spain, then it doesn’t say much for the credibility of the report. This little item appears to have been swiped and modified from a story about the flu outbreak on the USS Dubuque...
Quote:
In early May 2009 the Dubuque had to abort a humanitarian aid mission to the South Pacific after a sailor onboard developed swine flu. It was later found out that approximately 50 more cases were likely H1N1 (swine flu) also. The US navy is postponing an aid mission to the South Pacific after a sailor on the vessel scheduled to take the trip developed swine flu. Nearly 50 others sailors on the California-based USS Dubuque also showed symptoms of the new H1N1 virus. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8034991.stm


Continued in the next post...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:14 am 
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MKey1 wrote:
Now for the Flying Dutchman of Flu, Naval Version, Part Two...


5. 50 personnel sent aboard to help are quarantined in Navy hospital in Balboa, Spain after 10 of them caught the flu from the ship's crew. Two of the 50 quarantined are in serious condition at last report.
One Small problem. Okay, it's a rather BIG problem for the credibility of this whole "news" story. There is NO naval hospital to be quarantined at in Balboa, Spain. In fact, there’s no naval hospital AT ALL in Balboa, Spain. While there is actually a Balboa, Spain, it’s in Basque/Northern Spain, well inland and doesn’t have a military base. The US Naval Base in Spain is actually located at Rota, on the opposite side of the country, and that’s where the naval hospital in Spain is located. See the following list of naval medical facilities: http://www.theagapecenter.com/Hospitals/Navy.htm Of interest, there is a Naval Medical Center in Balboa Park, San Diego, USA. However, San Diego and Spain are a wee bit apart on a map, and if the reporter can’t correctly tell San Diego from Spain, then it doesn’t say much for the credibility of the report. This little item appears to have been swiped and modified from a story about the flu outbreak on the USS Dubuque...
Quote:
In early May 2009 the Dubuque had to abort a humanitarian aid mission to the South Pacific after a sailor onboard developed swine flu. It was later found out that approximately 50 more cases were likely H1N1 (swine flu) also. The US navy is postponing an aid mission to the South Pacific after a sailor on the vessel scheduled to take the trip developed swine flu. Nearly 50 others sailors on the California-based USS Dubuque also showed symptoms of the new H1N1 virus. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8034991.stm


Continued in the next post...

Yes, these HOAXES are just a bunch of copy/pastes by posters who have NO idea what they are copying and pasting. The San Diego ZOO is in Balboa Park, which is an appropriate visual for the posted nonsense. These copy/pastes represent constant moving targets of UTTER NONSENSE, swallowed hook, line, and sinker by the conspiracy theorists who think the flu is man made and the vaccine is designed for population control.

These posters are BEYOND BELIEF, and rightly so (but MANY will not take the vaccine and will die because of these absurdities).

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Last edited by niman on Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:58 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:32 am 
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Continued from above...

6. Of the 347 man crew that were vaccinated, 333 contracted the H1N1 flu FROM THE VACCINE. Two died, as mentioned above, and 331 survived. Only 14 of the 347 vaccinated sailors did not show any ill effects from the vaccine.
It is not possible to catch the flu from an injected flu vaccine, because it doesn't have a live virus in it. The company that makes the nasal vaccine, the only flu vax that has any live virus at all that could even potentially cause a case of flu, began the initial steps in DEVELOPING their vaccine at the end of April. So, there was definitely no live vaccine around to have been given to anyone.

7. Navy has threatened all the spouses of the ship's crew to remain silent - claiming all this information is classified. Some are whistle-blowing and that is where this information is coming from.
Influenza cases are not classified, nor are the names of the spouses' ships on which they occur. In fact, if you want to read all about them, direct your browser here:
http://fhp.osd.mil/aiWatchboard/
and here
http://fhp.osd.mil/aiWatchboard/H1N1NewsArchive.jsp
Wives are not at risk for being prosecuted under the Universal Code of Military Justice or any other legal system for giving out the name of the ship their spouse serves on, and this info is public domain. Since it’s not a crime to give, using the alleged wives “fear” of being prosecuted as the reason why the wives supposedly couldn’t provide a ship’s name is patently ridiculous. Heck, there are numerous stories in the press of flu outbreaks aboard quite a few naval vessels. If the military isn't going after CNN, Fox, or any of the major papers, then why would anyone think they'd bother a military wife? This line of bull is being used as an excuse for failing to provide verifiable facts. The manufacturer of this story doesn’t want anyone fact-checking him.

8. On the unnamed aircraft carrier that provided assistance, 415 sailors contracted the swine flu and are currently quarantined onboard.
Not according to the military's own influenza surveillance report...
Quote:
ARMY: South Carolina (Ft. Jackson) and Georgia (Ft. Benning, Ft. Gordon, Ft. Stewart) are experiencing spikes in ILI clinic
visits this past week. Recruits at Ft. Jackson and Ft. Benning continue to be affected along with children <18 years of age
NAVY: No significant clusters aboard ships or among recruits at Great Lakes due to an aggressive testing and prophylaxis policy
MARINES: Marine Corps Recruit Depot-San Diego is experiencing substantially elevated febrile respiratory illness (FRI) rates
AIR FORCE: Increases in laboratory-confirmed pH1N1 cases among AF Beneficiaries out of Kadena AB (Japan)
COAST GUARD: USCG Training Center, Cape May continues to see co-circulation of adenovirus type 14 and pH1N1
http://fhp.osd.mil/aiWatchboard/pdf/AFHSC%20Weekly%20Influenza%20Surveillance%20Summary-Week%2036.pdf


So, all in all, this "news" story is claiming that people caught a virus from a vaccine that doesn't have any live virus and wasn't even around at the time it was allegedly being "tested," were quarantined in naval hospitals in places that are landlocked and don't even have a naval base, let alone a naval hospital, and so on....

In a word, NOT CREDIBLE.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:16 am 
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SteveMartin wrote:

Please listen to the interview and don't waste my time responding to me if you won't take the time to do that. I am not saying that to be rude, I am just extremely busy and I don't have time for replying to anyone who isn't into doing the homework to have an informed opinion on all of this.

Thanks!

Please. You need to do some homework on your sources, which have NO credibility. They claimed that the swine H1N1 was man made because it had human, avian, and swine flu genes, which is utter nonsense. Such triple reasortants have been circulating in swine for well over a decade, so they obviously have no virology background and are not familiar with the genetic history of the swine H1N1. Then they tried to claim it was man made because of genetics. Either polymorphisms were not in the sequence database or the evolutionary distance between the pandemic strain and the known isolates was too large to be "natural" and was due to lab growth/manipulation, which is also false. Swine flu isolates have a fair amount of diversity, and the swine sequence database is quite small, so these failures to find changes, or the finding of large evolutionary gaps is COMMON, because the database is so small.

Thus, there is NO evidence that the viruses are man made and NO evidence that there was any vaccine prior to those generated by a number of pharmas using seed stocks that are widely available to legitimate vaccine makers (which were available in May).

Your initial premise that the virus is man made is WRONG and the vaccine has already been FDA apporved by virtue of safety and efficacy in MULTIPLE clinical trails, in MULTIPLE countries, by MULTIPLE vaccine companies (in the US, Europe, and China).

You are perpetuating HOAXES that are DEMONSTRABLY false.

I agree that some homework is definitely in order, which might lead to real questions that demonstrate that your sources are peddling UTTER NONSENSE.

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Last edited by niman on Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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